How should religious tradition and personal context be balanced when reflecting on dreams?

[CLAS]

我一直在思考解梦和反思梦之间的区别。

在许多宗教传统中，梦境可以具有精神意义，但与此同时，我认为将每个符号都视为具有一个固定含义，或者肯定地告诉别人一个梦预示着什么，都是有风险的。

我最近在做一个关于伊斯兰教解梦方法的小项目，其中一个问题反复出现：

传统解释应该占多大比重？做梦者自身的境遇、情感和生活背景又应该占多大比重？

例如，两个人可能都梦见水，但一个人可能觉得水很平静，而另一个人则觉得水很可怕。仅仅因为符号相同就给两个人完全相同的解释，我觉得很奇怪。

我倾向于采用这样一种方法：以传统资源为背景和可能性，而最终的思考则保持谨慎和个人化，而不是做出明确的断言。

我很想知道大家是如何看待这个问题的。

你认为梦境符号的含义相对稳定吗？还是你认为个人背景更重要？

 

[Harvey]

Hallo Clas, welcome to Dreamforum. This your question is very interesting and if you translate this text of chinese characters in inglish, spanish, dutch, or german, and if it is a discription of a dream, you can use it as a testcase. It is true that, due to the fact that the dreamlanguage of the dreamer is filled with elements of very tales, relegious stories, proverbs and sayings, it is a plus if the interpreter would know a lot from different cultures. But the dreamlanguage Is The Baselanguage Of Mankind. So I, a dreaminterpreter of 40 years experience of translating dreams for people of different cultures, even long time ago for a chinese person, can confidently say that I am capable to translate/ interprete for anybody in this world.

So translate your dream in one of the above languages! In the case I 'see diffeculties relating to your culture, I will ask the necessary question.

 

[Lex]

我一直在思考解梦和反思梦之间的区别。

在许多宗教传统中，梦境可以具有精神意义，但与此同时，我认为将每个符号都视为具有一个固定含义，或者肯定地告诉别人一个梦预示着什么，都是有风险的。

我最近在做一个关于伊斯兰教解梦方法的小项目，其中一个问题反复出现：

传统解释应该占多大比重？做梦者自身的境遇、情感和生活背景又应该占多大比重？

例如，两个人可能都梦见水，但一个人可能觉得水很平静，而另一个人则觉得水很可怕。仅仅因为符号相同就给两个人完全相同的解释，我觉得很奇怪。

我倾向于采用这样一种方法：以传统资源为背景和可能性，而最终的思考则保持谨慎和个人化，而不是做出明确的断言。

我很想知道大家是如何看待这个问题的。

你认为梦境符号的含义相对稳定吗？还是你认为个人背景更重要？

Hopefully translated correctly for everyone else.
This should make it easier.
Translation quoted below"
"I have been thinking about the difference between interpreting a dream and reflecting on a dream.In many religious traditions, dreams can hold spiritual meaning. At the same time, I think it is risky to treat every symbol as having a single fixed meaning, or to tell someone with certainty what a dream predicts.I am currently working on a small project about Islamic methods of dream interpretation, and one question keeps coming up:How much weight should be given to traditional interpretations, and how much to the dreamer's own situation, emotions, and life context?For example, two people might both dream of water. One might feel that the water is calm, while the other might find it terrifying. It feels strange to give both people the exact same interpretation just because the symbol is the same.I tend to lean toward an approach that uses traditional resources as background and possibility, while keeping the final reflection careful and personal rather than making definitive assertions."

This is rather interesting question and one i have discussed before long ago
And someone explained it like this
"A man came to a woman to disprove her fortune telling skill and told her he had repeated dreams of a scarecrow stuffed with hay (mind you Im fuzzy on the details its been 20 years) but the woman warned him of injuries occuring and sent him on his way, the thing occured and he shrugged it off because he hadnt really dreamed it he was lying and telling the woman a story he made up so he went back and told her again the same dream about the scarecrow and again she told him his fortune but this time her prediction was different from before confused he left and just like before she was correct, he visits again and says the same dream and again he gets a completely different prediction (i think along the lines of a broken leg I think) he storms off not believing and upon riding his horse falls ans breaks his leg... now hes upset and goes back to her once his leg has healed and demands anwsers..."how can you give me 3 different predictions when I didnt dream them and it was the same story." She said "if you are creating the story it is no different then a dream the mind is subconcious in all things it does, lying, dreaming, awake or asleep it doesnt matter, you had a story you needed to share to prove a point and in doing so also proved mine. What predicts an outcome is not the dream or story but ourselves in how we accept what we understand about it." The man left at her words and never bothered her again."

Honestly I think I did a poor job explaining this story and I haven't been able to find the tale of it in.. a long long while.


But it hit home for me regarding messages and the way the mind works.
It isnt so much whats in the dream but the meaning people take from it, which is why i think cultural forums like this are ao important... because of how people connect and observe and offer Ideas that one might not have exprienced or thought about for the same story, though I also think some things are part of the human community, and dont always need translation... hence historical dream guides. But then you have cultural meanings that are diverse in Colour...like in the west red is a warning where in the east it can be a sign of good fortune or luck.

 

[PaulKH]

This is a wonderful and delicate subject (if the translation worked, heh) that I agree must be taken in a personal context, even with those who are invested in the belief of everything being the same or similar for everyone (especially when organized into a religious format). And Lex, the story-parable defines this well: the personal experience in this vastly mysterious existence must be accounted for as best as possible when searching for meaning. Some things are fairly fundamental/foundational (or at least must be agreed upon for coordination to work), and yet much of how a dream would communicate is tailored to that specific individual. This is why some here are always asking for context, because to an extent, interpretation must be done from a standpoint of great empathy, and that almost never happens from ignorance about the dreamer or situation (people trick themselves into thinking they have empathy when what they're really doing is projecting, which isn't the same from a perspective measure).

And yet this consideration must somehow be balanced with the understanding of far greater, relatively ancient, more cohesive (layered?) forces than the individual viewpoints. If dreaming is tapped into those aspects of existence, then certain things might hold true regardless of the individual's belief or schooling (which is why it's wise to use them like a baseline reference point). To the original post: reflecting on a dream, in my mind, is a private, individual process of trying to benefit from that dream, to find enough meaning in it to aid in understanding (and ideally help in future situations); whereas, interpreting is trying to use empathy to define meaning (often for someone else) and ought to be done with more caution than reflecting/speculating.

So, I figure a truly great translator has a solid grasp of both of these facets when "feeling" their way toward an interpretation (and knows when they are simply speculating versus resonating a truth in dream form). Personally, I take comfort from a practical standpoint: that even dream confusion/uncertainty can be used positively and end up being helpful for individual growth, because at the end of the dream speculating, it's truly up to the individual who applies it.

 

[Lex]

This is a wonderful and delicate subject (if the translation worked, heh) that I agree must be taken in a personal context, even with those who are invested in the belief of everything being the same or similar for everyone (especially when organized into a religious format). And Lex, the story-parable defines this well: the personal experience in this vastly mysterious existence must be accounted for as best as possible when searching for meaning. Some things are fairly fundamental/foundational (or at least must be agreed upon for coordination to work), and yet much of how a dream would communicate is tailored to that specific individual. This is why some here are always asking for context, because to an extent, interpretation must be done from a standpoint of great empathy, and that almost never happens from ignorance about the dreamer or situation (people trick themselves into thinking they have empathy when what they're really doing is projecting, which isn't the same from a perspective measure).

And yet this consideration must somehow be balanced with the understanding of far greater, relatively ancient, more cohesive (layered?) forces than the individual viewpoints. If dreaming is tapped into those aspects of existence, then certain things might hold true regardless of the individual's belief or schooling (which is why it's wise to use them like a baseline reference point). To the original post: reflecting on a dream, in my mind, is a private, individual process of trying to benefit from that dream, to find enough meaning in it to aid in understanding (and ideally help in future situations); whereas, interpreting is trying to use empathy to define meaning (often for someone else) and ought to be done with more caution than reflecting/speculating.

So, I figure a truly great translator has a solid grasp of both of these facets when "feeling" their way toward an interpretation (and knows when they are simply speculating versus resonating a truth in dream form). Personally, I take comfort from a practical standpoint: that even dream confusion/uncertainty can be used positively and end up being helpful for individual growth, because at the end of the dream speculating, it's truly up to the individual who applies it.

*nods* adding to this because I am not sure if i understood your full message but I appreciate your very postive and curious approach to dreams and things as well as your excitement to dive into all aspects of it

Currently out and about but paused to sit and read this.

I Think truly when people ask for outside views its because they are in the middle of it and feeling unable to step outside themselves, dreams act at times feel too literal when your in them.

P.K you might like my dream for a night or so ago... it was weird and visually distorted... it feels like my dreams have had themes lately.

I really do think dreams are a way for people to connect deeply with one another and that in itself is a spiritual exprience is kinda what Im getting at.

Basically every story/dream/conversation someone tells you, be it true or not. It holds some part of their subconscience mind.

I May have lost my own plot point when i was trying to respond to you PK. Lol

Its been a busy week.