So when do you think a dream is not worth dwelling on?

PaulKH

Member
The initial obvious answer is that it's completely subjective, but is it? I feel like there is an entire "subgenre" of vivid dreams that do nothing but amuse or perhaps test abilities in a way that brings little meaning in and of itself (and certainly not to others). And as much as I value communication about dreams and open-mindedness about possible meanings, there seems to be both the white noise akin to a TV channel that has nothing to air (and is therefore static/nonsense that is at best barely remembered) and dreams that, while vivid, don't even try to connect dots or impress meaning upon the dreamer. So without the design of any import or emotion, could they mean anything outside their amusement value?

For example:

I had a vivid dream last night of several people and children playing/hanging out in a grassy yard on a sizable corner lot of a suburban home (felt like a neighborhood get-together). A few people were playing with an over-inflated bean bag that we managed to seal the seam up so it acted almost like a bouncing ball while still sounding/feeling like the kind you use as an informal chair. Inevitably since the bean bag was being (mis)used like a ball, it went bounding into the street and down the paved decline toward busier parts of town.

After a moment of watching it and kids whining, a woman said, "I'll get it," but wasn't hurrying, merely strolling like she had all the time in the world to retrieve it. I considered just hanging with the others and letting fate take its natural course, but then changed my mind and hurried after the woman at the fastest maintainable pace (the hurried jog of someone who had once been a distance runner). I quickly passed the woman, waving and saying something similar to her earlier, "I'll get it," and out of the corner of my eye saw her turn back.

I followed the inevitable path of the "ball" just in time to see a car passing through the intersection clip the bean bag, deflecting its direction and sending it down the right side of the curb/side walk (for my fellows who drive on the wrong side of the road, heh, in this dream it was with the flow of traffic so like the system used in the U.S.). And while the streets weren't as bad as areas like in San Fran, the declines were steep enough to make it impossible for me to catch the ball before it crossed yet another city block intersection that was becoming increasingly busy--again, narrowly missing being crushed and bouncing a couple times yet making it safely to the other side (and I also took quite the risk in judging the gaps, dodging cars and racing after it while still being slowed by the traffic). It seemed like at least another block before I caught up enough to search for it--I also remember it being near or in a market-type area that was basically flat, so perhaps it was the leveling out of the street that allowed me to catch up.

The ball's progress has been mostly hidden from me because of the traffic and now other people (thin crowds), so I began asking around, and one (bearded maybe?) man at a shop, nodded and said they had found it. He pointed me to a small box, and I knew what I would find before I opened it: a scuffed and deflated "skin". The seal we'd made over the zipper to hold air had given out, and someone had removed the stuffing, perhaps so it could be easily carried/stored. I knew the kids would be disappointed in its state, but at least I had tracked it down. At this point the dream got fuzzy as I was waking up; I think I thanked the man but cannot remember if I kept it in the box or removed what was left of it, if I went searching for the fuzz/styrofoam bits or if I just wrote that off, because I think by that point, my consciousness was writing off the dream as nonsense. Thoughts?
 

DammitDog

Member
I look at/into the ones that linger the following day and/or leave you feeling a bit off when you wake from them. I often have dreams that I think are probably meaningful - working through something, that the details of fade almost immediately upon waking. Other times its, as you say just amusement or a story pieced together from snippets of your waking life - a friend you heard from and haven't seen in a while added to the plot from a tv show you watched in a location you know.
 

PaulKH

Member
Interesting, DD; so a major aspect you use to distinguish between meaningful and not is the lingering factor. You already touched on my follow up to that, because not only do I also have dreams that fade faster than I want (where I feel like I am missing meaning I should be getting), I know from training that those can be improved upon, where your waking memory can cling to those details that would otherwise be lost almost immediately.

One of the things rarely talked about is the accompanying exhaustion that can result, where if you focus on remembering dreams too much, you'll end up using a large amount of your energy and feel more tired than you otherwise would. A cost to pay for everything no matter how beneficial, and so I guess the best we can do is to be keenly aware of that--but that's a different topic.

You snuck in another point in passing that I almost missed, heh: that of dismissing some dreams when you see a clear connection to media (or other environmental factor like a familiar location) you have recently experienced. When translating dream experiences into "language" we can fathom, there's no doubt our mind will use any tool at its disposal, even when you load it up with TV shows or games (or like in some noted cases, biblical scholarship). Yet does this actually mean there's no message or lesson in these types of dreams; have you had any exception to this?

Personally, I tend to also dismiss dreams when I see a clear pattern similarity to something I've been doing IRL, assuming it's my lower brain simply toying with the impressions as it idles, and yet... While researching, I'm pretty sure I have seen exceptions to this, where my mind is using or being flavored by a recent experience of mine while still feeding me something new and important (ie, a learning opportunity if only it is grasped). I find it difficult to find any clear distinguishing factors between silly-fun brain exercises (which I broadly call "white noise", after the TV/radio static that many younger people have probably never experienced), and those of meaning/value that I am simply missing by not being ready enough for it. This is why I'm interested in how other dreamers account for this and what their measures are. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 

DammitDog

Member
I think not every dream is "serious" and not every serious dream is recalled. Whether we are conscious of it or not, our minds are sorting out whatever that underlying issue is while we are dreaming. Even if you aren't aware of what it is, some part of your mind retains whatever solution or meaning you've worked out in that dream. Having that feeling that there was something important in a dream and not being able to recall it though drives me a bit nuts. I very often find myself in situations where I feel like I've lived a particular experience before in a dream (that I have no recollection of). When I get that feeling I try to be a little more conscious of my surroundings, what is going on at the moment and what my feelings and reactions are. I used to worry it was a warning of some sort but now I think its just that there is something in that moment that is familiar to an issue or experience that has worried me enough in the past to wrestle with it in my dreams. I try to be more aware in those moments and deliberate in my own words and actions so that I don't get into anything that will cause me anxiety later. Conversely, sometimes its just a really beautiful moment - a warm sunny day with a soft breeze and people I care about. Those are worth slowing down for and making sure the memory sticks too.
 

Lyn Holley

Active member
I think all dreams are important and come with a purpose. In this dream your dream ego is chasing something that ends up being disappointing. What is the parallel to waking life? The children could very well represent some stage in your life when some disappointment happened that your psyche remembers to this day. The ball needs repair. I believe something happened in your childhood that needs repair. What does the ball represent? The ego wants to say it's all nonsense. If we listen to the ego about dreams, we are sunk. The dreams serve no purpose when only view through an egoic lens. The ball no longer holds air. Some puffed up idea perhaps that died.
 

PaulKH

Member
I think all dreams are important and come with a purpose. In this dream your dream ego is chasing something that ends up being disappointing. What is the parallel to waking life? The children could very well represent some stage in your life when some disappointment happened that your psyche remembers to this day. The ball needs repair. I believe something happened in your childhood that needs repair. What does the ball represent? The ego wants to say it's all nonsense. If we listen to the ego about dreams, we are sunk. The dreams serve no purpose when only view through an egoic lens. The ball no longer holds air. Some puffed up idea perhaps that died.

I (think) I agree that dreams can be every bit as useful as we allow them to be via practice/training, sensitivity, and group collaboration on the possibilities (which was one of the core concepts behind my dream novel as the students I dreamed-and-wrote about grew in awareness and ability together).

Sometimes a dream is obviously a lesson, when the dream nudges--or even impacts--you and you are left practically vibrating with meaning! Those are simple to grasp and study, but then along comes the types that you remember for various reasons but seem to have little or no impact on the dreamer--they just seem to be *there* without any clear purpose (as with my beanbag-ball dream), which prompted the dwelling thoughts and this initial post.

I mean, I could stretch out and force/experiment with some connecting dots, but none of it resonates with truth. There *is* nothing left from my childhood that needs repair, in that I have spent decades being sensitive to this and repairing/growing myself far beyond any childhood trope; the peace/clarity/cleanliness-of-spirit is my constant reward for all the previous work and current efforts. So, it seems unlikely that something should have escaped my notice/evaluation/resolution, and every time I try to force a fit for the beanbag analogy, it rings hollow (note again that the ball was a repurposed beanbag, being used to amuse us at a get-together in a way it wasn't originally designed to do).

In my dream there was none of the "pay attention" mechanics, emotional or otherwise; there was no other powerful symbolism or sense from other than sight; no pressing of the personal; there were no noticeable complications like tiring/struggling/worrying/etc. It was just...there, playing out in a way I have trained myself to recall, but without any hint of it *needing* a translation.

Perhaps the best way to reframe my question is this: what *can* or *should* we gain from such dreams--how can we make them important to us in some genuinely instructive way? Forcing some false narrative is *never* the answer (to anyone invested in truth, that is).
 

Lyn Holley

Active member
You might see if other dreams connect to this one, or clarify it. There is no, "should," in dreams. It is totally up to you. There are also no, "false narratives." That is dualistic thinking, and also shames the person trying to help. If the dream affects me this way, you have shared the dream and it becomes partly mine. You always come from such a lofty place. That you, "know." There is so, so much that we don't know, and in my opinion should be open to.
 

PaulKH

Member
You might see if other dreams connect to this one, or clarify it. There is no, "should," in dreams. It is totally up to you. There are also no, "false narratives." That is dualistic thinking, and also shames the person trying to help. If the dream affects me this way, you have shared the dream and it becomes partly mine. You always come from such a lofty place. That you, "know." There is so, so much that we don't know, and in my opinion should be open to.
Ah, Lyn, please don't feel any shame or defensiveness from my comments--they are not meant as a personal judgment, and there is no productivity in taking them that way, so allow me to apologize/clarify/offer insight in one complex, non-dualistic bundle. I had no intention/thought to shame or do anything other than clarify in a more precise way where this thread topic and example dream come from. And I'm saddened that after all I clarified, this is your takeaway from it.

Yet, it's also an interesting chance to learn (if we *both* allow it), because I suspect we approach helping using different mindsets. When I give opinions or advice to people, I own only my words/intent and nothing more--everything else is a take-it-or-leave-it gift that I attach only hope-of-insight/growth to (in other words, it is outward-focused only). The primary metrics in communication are the information being passed and the reception, correct? The ideal progress is to enlighten/elevate, right? So, this is why your last entry saddens me: when you read my previous post, you see only *you* in it; yet when I read you last post, I also see *you* in it. And because of this, beneficial information risks being overshadowed.

Please, take this information about my intent and reread the previous day's posts to see if that changes how it reads to you. I now know you have more invested in your first post, and I might understand in a way I had not considered yesterday. You are giving of yourself and I am grateful and even more interested in what you said *because of that investment*.

So, allow me add that I think we both feel there is always something important about a dream one can recall (and probably importance in the dreams we fail to recall); this is why I train/struggle to retain as many details and impressions as I can. I was a little surprised by my sample dream of how much I could remember of it *without* feeling any strong emotions in it/about it, which again, is what prompted the topic (the physics of reality were present, without *any* dream-laden additions that I could use as clues). How can I remember so many details without any attached impression about what those details could mean? This is a head-scratcher to me, and I *am* open about its possibilities.

So given all that explanation, this is why the childhood speculation and "the ball needs repair" seems off to me--trust that if I could perceive any parallels to now or childhood, I'd have mentioned them in my speculation. Many dreams of childhood issues or conflicts in my past have come attached with powerful feelings of "I must do something about this!" So understand that I have plenty of experience being sensitive and appropriately responsive, using those dreams to begin the adjusting/healing work. In short, I'm no stranger to introspection and adjustment-of-character, which makes "flat" dreams like the one I described stand out more. Could the deflated beanbag resonate with you and be a sequence you needed to hear? Maybe so, and I am both glad and also truly sorry that my phrasing got in your way.

Heh, you may consider how I think and type "lofty" (and I like that term), but I would rather attempt to elevate, to pack in as much potential food-for-thought as I can--this has been a conscious decision of mine for decades as I studied communication. I am unapologetically idealistic and always wanting humanity to be better than it currently is (and language is one of our primary tools for these efforts). I hope this clarification resonates in a better way to you, but remember that *you* also have the most valuable role in how you allow yourself to feel about this chance.

Here's to hoping.
 

Lyn Holley

Active member
Dear Paul,
I am sure you have a good heart and mean well. I cannot escape the feeling of being talked down to. I can predict that when I comment on your dreams I will find resistance. So be it; it's not worth it. I am no one's project. Happy Easter....Lyn
 

PaulKH

Member
And a happy Easter to you in whatever format you appreciate. :)


Does anyone else have delving thoughts on the thread topic? Has anyone else wondered about the distinction between hidden gems and simple brain exercise, and how to understand which is which?
 

Lyn Holley

Active member
Dear Paul,
I am sure you have a good heart and mean well. I cannot escape the feeling of being talked down to. I can predict that when I comment on your dreams I will find resistance. So be it; it's not worth it. I am no one's project. Happy Easter....Lyn
Have a happy Easter....
 

MistressLex

Active member
I feel the dream let's you know when it's worth dwelling on. You simply know when your not seeing what you need to in it.
 

PaulKH

Member
I feel the dream let's you know when it's worth dwelling on. You simply know when your not seeing what you need to in it.
Hello. Yes, I think in general this is a good rule of thumb, a fairly consistent measure of the internal importance because of the personal dilemmas dreams can plug into. These are the types of dreams most psychologists highlight and work with. "Trust in the dream to feel properly important" probably works for most people and most dreams.

Yet, as far back in time as we can go there are tales of kinds of dreams meant for others, which do not carry much personal significance--from dream solution-hints to overwhelming post apocalyptic panoramas (and everything in between, often non-dramatic by nature/intent[?]). These can be highly detailed (and why be so detailed if they don't feel personal?), and stand out from typically mild brain activity because of that detail or symbolism, but can easily be lost/ignored as not relevant just as something in the waking world can require a high level of empathy/caring to notice.

I've found the recalled details can be enhanced through training, learning to pay more attention to the ones that don't necessarily impact you, so what of those? Are they merely a result of practice, like working a dream "muscle" that responds accordingly, or is it more like attuning to a stream that's always there but difficult to "tap into" because it's usually noninvasive by nature/design? Heh, inquiring minds want to know.
 

MistressLex

Active member
Hello. Yes, I think in general this is a good rule of thumb, a fairly consistent measure of the internal importance because of the personal dilemmas dreams can plug into. These are the types of dreams most psychologists highlight and work with. "Trust in the dream to feel properly important" probably works for most people and most dreams.

Yet, as far back in time as we can go there are tales of kinds of dreams meant for others, which do not carry much personal significance--from dream solution-hints to overwhelming post apocalyptic panoramas (and everything in between, often non-dramatic by nature/intent[?]). These can be highly detailed (and why be so detailed if they don't feel personal?), and stand out from typically mild brain activity because of that detail or symbolism, but can easily be lost/ignored as not relevant just as something in the waking world can require a high level of empathy/caring to notice.

I've found the recalled details can be enhanced through training, learning to pay more attention to the ones that don't necessarily impact you, so what of those? Are they merely a result of practice, like working a dream "muscle" that responds accordingly, or is it more like attuning to a stream that's always there but difficult to "tap into" because it's usually noninvasive by nature/design? Heh, inquiring minds want to know.
I find it can be a bit of both, practice and I find when your younger its much easier to do those things and train yourself to do so... but as we age a feel a lot of what we are capable of seems shuffled around or lost and requires more effort to retain and utilize.
 
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